Curse

Angry penguins · Oct 06, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetWookie

good/excelent players with no rank cannot get into good groups and so continue to have no rank

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

Do not exist unless they're on their second account. PvE does NOT prepare you for PvP.

What about the players who do some PvP such as team arena and also do GvG but don't do the tomb or halls? Are they bad just becuase they haven't done that one type before?

Guizzy · Oct 06, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

No, they're not and that's exactly the problem.

I learned my PvP with my PvE char; first in Comp arena, then I graduated to Team Arena (though I still come back to Comp when I need a quick fix and don't want to waste any time).

Now, I try to play Tombs. Note the word: "try". I've played with a few good groups, but most of my time is wasted waiting for a group that will accept me (only for it to be a blind invite group with 4 Whammos that don't make it past the first round). Yet I'm a goddamn build theorist! When I get sick of all the waiting and build my own group; we usually kick much butt for a PUG.

smurfhunter · Oct 06, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

yknow i think the op is just rank 0 or something, and sad because groups wont take him

kyeo138 · Oct 06, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Amen Guizzy! I've spent most of my time in GvG or the 4-man areas. I get into Tombs w/some friends only rarely, and when I do I win. That's why I'm only rank 1, but I bet my overall tombs record is over .500. So here I am with a really low rank, unable to get into any decent group, only when some of my few friends are on.

If anyone else is in the same kind of boat, look me up in-game:
IGN: Drexorn Lighthammer (usually on as Drex Pvp)

scamPOR · Oct 06, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

I respectfully disagree with the OP in some senses. While he is right that Rank alone is not a very good measure of skill, rank IS a decent measuring unit. How does one measure anything without a unit to measure it in? Without rank you would have zero idea which players MIGHT be good. I'm currently rank 6 and a half and earned every bit of it the hard way, with at most 300 fame from 2 necro IWAY and a bit more from other types.

When I'm making a group (which is often) I want to know that people I'm recruiting know the maps, PERIOD. I don't care how "good" you are if you have no idea how to play a relic or altar map. I often end up with rank 3 or below people, and hardly demand rank 6+ unless its a build that I honestly believe has no chance with newer people.

Rank gives me a way to gauge a player initially. Sure I've had bad rank 6's, but 9 times out of 10 they are much more communicative, have more unlocked and generally preform better. I must say the only class I wouldn't want a rank 0 in is monk, unless they were from a good (top100 or so) gvg guild. Pve monking does NOT prepare you for pvp monking. Same with arena, hardly a comparison.

So remove rank and unconnected players have zero chance. Asking someone their bar is a mediocre way to test a player at best, and best used in conjunction with something else (rank or idk). If your a rank 0 "nub" and I play with you and your good, so what your rank 0. In my experience in tombs rank DOES matter with some exceptions.

Iway has to be one of the easier to win with FOTM's as initially it was very strong, but people have came up with counters for it and its pretty weak now imo.

Having gone from air spike nub lucky to get 1 fame in 2 hours to winning halls every once in a while (sometimes even holding omgeed) I really think earning fame up till 6-7 ish really does make one a better player, if only in knowing what is the current trend and how to play certain maps.

If you think fame is hard to get, try making a build or a group and if you still cant get any maybe reconsider how "pro" you really are. Joining a pvp guild never hurts as most of them will teach you tombs or gvg also.

Kai Nui · Oct 06, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

Do not exist unless they're on their second account. PvE does NOT prepare you for PvP.

So you are saying it's impossible to play teams arenas or guild battles and you are unskilled? Isn't that a horrible assumption to make? That's the mistake many people make. I'm a great mesmer, but putting together a team of 4 or working with guildies all the time is much different then finding 8 skilled people to fight against the rest of the world. I mean seriously, Tombs is set up to lose. How many PUGs have actually made it far past the ghostlys? Maybe a win or another, but I've gotten to 14 fame off of PUGS and let me tell you that I've lost countless more times than 14 wins against the first wave of people. I don't think I've even been in a team that's gone past the second human fight. I'm very skilled as a mesmer, but I'm just one man, I can't be the power to do everything for the other 7, so don't blame me for being unskilled.

borkbork · Oct 06, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Most groups usually ask for your skill bar first and then decide. Then they'll give you a chance or two going through the tombs.. if you suck, you're booted.

I find that including a rank requirement is very good at scaring away clueless people from spamming you. The amount of spam I get from saying 'Looking for high damage warrior' drops dramatically if I say "Looking for R3+ high damage warrior'.

If you want to join a group, just walk right up and pm the person. If you're really as experienced as you claim to be, then you should be able to fit right in.

dansamy · Oct 06, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

Do not exist unless they're on their second account. PvE does NOT prepare you for PvP.

I *do* have a 2nd account, on which I am experimenting with pure PvP. I began the account in CA with the Fi boon template, where I earned enough faction in 4 hours to unlock Aegis and Martyr. I then took the prot template to Tombs, and with the help of some good friends, earned r1 in under 2 hours. This account is currently guildless and has NO pve toons.

wsmcasey · Oct 06, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamPOR

Pve monking does NOT prepare you for pvp monking.

I played a healer and protection in PvE with my first character and completed the game before turning to smite farming. Monks are primary targets in PvE and require you to think fast and stay alive while healing a party of 8. Your insulting the abilities of every good PvE monk in the game with your statement, including me.

Pfff....as if PvP monking is so special.

Guizzy · Oct 06, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by scamPOR

I respectfully disagree with the OP in some senses. While he is right that Rank alone is not a very good measure of skill, rank IS a decent measuring unit. How does one measure anything without a unit to measure it in? Without rank you would have zero idea which players MIGHT be good.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion and you do try to explain it.

And fame IS hard to get if you never play IWAY and so. I've seen the maps; I know how they work; I've played them and yes, Smurfhunter, I still have that crappy rank 0. People who've tried playing with me know what I can do with my character, but most people don't even try it; because of the rank.

Of course; asking "just" the skill bar is not much. You need to ask the player WHY he runs these skills. If he can't explain it; just don't take him. Simple as that, and much more foolproof than rank.

Going to a PvP guild is not an option for everyone; it's not for me, at least. I've got my own guild with real-life friends who don't PvP much. That's what PUGs are for, and they simply don't do it well with rank running the PvP world like money runs the real world.

borkbork · Oct 06, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsmcasey

I played a healer and protection in PvE with my first character and completed the game before turning to smite farming. Monks are primary targets in PvE and require you to think fast and stay alive while healing a party of 8. Your insulting the abilities of every good PvE monk in the game with your statement, including me.

Pfff....as if PvP monking is so special.

I find that making mistakes in PvE healing/protting is much more forgiving than in PvP.

In PvE, if your team goes down.. you can always run away and res later. In PvP, that's game over.

dansamy · Oct 06, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

PvP healing is a big pain in the ass. I refuse to do it beyond what I needed to do to get enough faction to make the prot template usable to me.

cookiehoarder · Oct 06, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Rank doesn't matter anymore. Thanks to IWAY

Guizzy · Oct 06, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

I'm very skilled as a mesmer, but I'm just one man, I can't be the power to do everything for the other 7, so don't blame me for being unskilled.

Indeed; there are lots of people in your situation, but we are buried between a pile of terrible Whammos soloers (Wa/Mos) and monks that only play monk to be popular (not that it is anymore). There should be a secret sign for people like us to recognise each other.

cookiehoarder · Oct 06, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guizzy

Indeed; there are lots of people in your situation, but we are buried between a pile of terrible Whammos soloers (Wa/Mos) and monks that only play monk to be popular (not that it is anymore). There should be a secret sign for people like us to recognise each other.

What?

Why are you even bringing w/mos into this situation or monks. Monks don't get into a good group because they are monks. They get into groups because people have played with them before and they know what they are doing.

And there is a "Secret sign" for people to recognize each other. It's called /rank, but as I've said, it doesn't matter anymore because of IWAY.

Guizzy · Oct 06, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Of course; that's why I'm saying "not that it is anymore".

You remember the time monks were very demanded? The supply was not nearly meeting the demand.
Many people started monks at that moment; thinking "I'll never have problems finding groups again!".
Indeed; they were popular. For a time.

Then, people started to realise that there were a lot of terrible monks running around convinced they're "the shiznit" because they still get chosen for groups. Very shortly after, the supply exceeded the demand; which is still the case. Nowadays, monks can regularly be found offering "services" to truckers in rest areas to pay for their rent of a smelly dumpster.

To make the long story short: Monks were very popular for groups, and there weren't enough. Most monks in these times were great, because they were dedicated. Seeing all those "LF Healer monk!" spammed in chat, many people made monks. Groups realised that sometimes, less monks is better than bad monks. Monks are easier to find now.

For the Whammos, I did specify "soloers", did I? I'm still looking for one instance in which having a soloer is good for a PvP group.

For the /rank (shows you have some rank), that's exactly what I'm referring to; but for intelligent players. Something like /brain (shows you have a brain) or /teamplay (shows you work with a group) or /good (shows you're good).

wsmcasey · Oct 06, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by borkbork

I find that making mistakes in PvE healing/protting is much more forgiving than in PvP.

In PvE, if your team goes down.. you can always run away and res later. In PvP, that's game over.

There are many missions and quests that require you to keep a ghost alive, and its not very forgiving when you have to start that mission or quest over.

I've seen some instances in tombs where its 4 teams and the first 2 teams fight until one of the teams only have 1 player left and that 1 player runs away and waits to come back and rez his party when the winning team moves on to the next team to fight.

Why does it feel like hardcore PvP'rs think they are better than PvE'rs in this game? It's always been that way.

Guizzy · Oct 06, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsmcasey

Why does it feel like hardcore PvP'rs think they are better than PvE'rs in this game? It's always been that way.

Elitism; and it hasn't only been that way for Guild Wars. Look in a history book!

cookiehoarder · Oct 06, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsmcasey

There are many missions and quests that require you to keep a ghost alive, and its not very forgiving when you have to start that mission or quest over.

I've seen some instances in tombs where its 4 teams and the first 2 teams fight until one of the teams only have 1 player left and that 1 player runs away and waits to come back and rez his party when the winning team moves on to the next team to fight.

Why does it feel like hardcore PvP'rs think they are better than PvE'rs in this game? It's always been that way.

Well...Because usually we are >_> There are trillions of W/Mo's that have no expierence and they think they are the shiznet because they have 15 platemail armor. However, I know quite a few Pve'rs that own my arse. Most of them are my PvP "Pals". You could always think of it, as hardcore Pvp'rs think they are better then Pve'rs because the Pve'rs don't PvP. May be the same type of thought for Pve'rs.

The only people I think I'm better then *Game Wise* are people that don't accept constructive criticism. If I ever see someone running a completely retarded build, I'll message them and say "Hey, you might like this, works very nicely with what you are running".

wsmcasey · Oct 06, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Some PvP'rs may think they are perceived as superior because of a stupid rank emote. They are shot down everytime they turn off there computer.